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Jan 15 VH

 
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Clement



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 1110
Location: Dar es Salaam Tanzania

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:34 pm    Post subject: Jan 15 VH Reply with quote

Code:

+----------+------------+----------+
| 8  15 9  | 345 7   45 | 2  13 6  |
| 7  6  2  | 1   #35  9  | 4  8  35 |
| 4  3  15 | 6   8   2  | 19 7  59 |
+----------+------------+----------+
| 15 4  3  | 8   9   15 | 6  2  7  |
| 9  8  6  | 47  2   47 | 3  5  1  |
| 15 2  7  | #35  15-3 6  | 8  9  4  |
+----------+------------+----------+
| 2  79 4  | *57  *15  3  | 19 6  8  |
| 3  15 15 | 9   6   8  | 7  4  2  |
| 6  79 8  | 2   4   17 | 5  13 39 |
+----------+------------+----------+
W-Wing 35 in Box 25 with SL 5 in row 7 r6c5<>3; stte.
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TerenceF



Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Takapuna, NZ

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From exactly the same point as Clement there is a 157 XY wing pivoted on r9c6 which eliminates the 5 from r6c4, also making r6c5<>3 leading to the same outcome.
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Clement



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 1110
Location: Dar es Salaam Tanzania

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:29 pm    Post subject: Jan 15 VH Reply with quote

I feel BUG+2 to be the simplest
5r6c5=3r2c5
5r1c4=3r2c5 so, r2c5=3.
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rmireland



Joined: 21 Sep 2013
Posts: 33
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More and more lately I have been using the "Fishy" xy with these VH puzzles. Today I used the Fishy 135 xy pivoted in r1c8, with pincers at r2c9 and r1c2, to eliminate the 5 in r2c5. With stte, I never look back (until someone posts a real answer), but these Fishies do solve it about half the time. -Rick
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dongrave



Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 563

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Clement, Marty told me a long time ago that w-wings, BUG+2, UR's, skyscrapers, jellyfish, etc. are not considered 'standard advanced moves' for this site. He told me that every VH on this site can be solved using just x-wings, xy-wings, and xyz-wings and since that's the case, that's the solution that I always look for and consider it to be the 'official' solution.
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Clement



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 1110
Location: Dar es Salaam Tanzania

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dongrave, I just wanted a change for a while. But what is important I think is a logical move to the solution.
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dongrave



Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 563

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Clement, I didn't make myself clear. I always enjoy checking out the single-step solutions that you and Dan and Marty and all the others post. I was just giving my opinion as to which solution I thought should be the site's 'official' solution. Don.
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RobertRattley



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 118
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've known for a long time that all VH puzzles on this site can be expected to be solvable (and so far always have been) with x, xy or xyz wings, and I seek solutions accordingly. That is simply my preference.

But I do not see this as "official". If anything, it would be a limitation that this site imposes on itself.

I've also been wondering (for years) if this site will ever expand to a new category "extra hard" or similar, for puzzles that even x, xy or xyz wings can't solve. Will it ever happen, does anybody know?
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Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert, it is extremely unlikely that that will happen. The site's owner says he doesn't have time to devote to the site. He has been an absentee owner for a number of years now.
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dongrave



Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 563

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RobertRattley wrote:
I've known for a long time that all VH puzzles on this site can be expected to be solvable (and so far always have been) with x, xy or xyz wings, and I seek solutions accordingly. That is simply my preference.

But I do not see this as "official". If anything, it would be a limitation that this site imposes on itself.

I've also been wondering (for years) if this site will ever expand to a new category "extra hard" or similar, for puzzles that even x, xy or xyz wings can't solve. Will it ever happen, does anybody know?


Hi Robert, Since we're given the premise that all VHs on this site can be solved using just wings, the site's 'official' solutions should only include those moves. I appreciate shorter solutions that use more advanced moves but I wouldn't consider them official solutions for this site because they're outside the range of the premise.

One day last year I chimed in with what I thought was the best official solution for a puzzle (which included a UR) at which point Marty explained to me that URs were not 'standard VH moves' for this site (he even used the phrase 'officially speaking'). Since then, I look for solutions that just use 'standard VH moves', even if I spot an obvious UR along the way.

Today's VH puzzle (02/02/15) is a perfect example! Even though I saw the URs right away, I knew that they weren't necessary - so I disregarded them until I found the standard XY wing. I can't be the only around that feels this way! (or am I?) I'm sure that Keith feels the same way and I'm pretty sure that Marty used to (but I'm not sure about now because I see that he used a UR today).
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Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He used the Ur because he failed to see the wing. I always prefer to solve these using the standard VH moves, but I'm having some difficulty grasping the concept of an "official" solution. Maybe what you mean by "official" solution could alternatively be called "standard" solution.
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dongrave



Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 563

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's it! You've got it Marty! I've been saying 'official solution' over and over but 'standard solution' is much better! (Seems obvious now.) I guess a solution using just 'standard moves' would surely be best described as a 'standard solution', wouldn't it? That's perfect!
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