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		keith
 
 
  Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 3355 Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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				 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: DB Saturday Puzzle:  July 14, 2007   (Corrected!!) | 
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				Puzzle: DB071407                     
 
 
Keith
 
 
 	  | Code: | 	 		  Puzzle: DB071407 ******
 
+-------+-------+-------+
 
| . . . | 8 . . | 7 . . | 
 
| 8 5 . | . . 3 | . 9 6 | 
 
| 2 . . | . . . | . 8 . | 
 
+-------+-------+-------+
 
| . . . | . . 9 | 2 . 3 | 
 
| . . 1 | . . . | 5 . . | 
 
| 4 . 2 | 6 . . | . . . | 
 
+-------+-------+-------+
 
| . 6 . | . . . | . . 2 | 
 
| 5 1 . | 2 . . | . 7 9 | 
 
| . . 8 | . . 5 | . . . | 
 
+-------+-------+-------+
 
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		Asellus
 
 
  Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 865 Location: Sonoma County, CA, USA
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				 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				Only needed one commonly used technique.
 
 
Are you sure you didn't correct it too much? | 
			 
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		keith
 
 
  Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 3355 Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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				 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				This is where basic methods run out of steam:
 
 	  | Code: | 	 		  +----------------+----------------+----------------+
 
| 1    49   3    | 8    69   46   | 7    2    5    | 
 
| 8    5    7    | 14   2    3    | 14   9    6    | 
 
| 2    49   6    | 5    179  147  | 3    8    14   | 
 
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
 
| 6    78   5    | 17   178  9    | 2    4    3    | 
 
| 9    78   1    | 3    4    2    | 5    6    78   | 
 
| 4    3    2    | 6    5    78   | 9    1    78   | 
 
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
 
| 3    6    9    | 147  178  1478 | 18   5    2    | 
 
| 5    1    4    | 2    3    68   | 68   7    9    | 
 
| 7    2    8    | 9    16   5    | 146  3    14   | 
 
+----------------+----------------+----------------+ | 	  
 
I was able to solve R9C5 by multi-coloring, and then an XYZ-wing finished it off.
 
 
Keith | 
			 
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		jLo
 
 
  Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 55
 
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				 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:00 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				 	  | keith wrote: | 	 		  
 
 
I was able to solve R9C5 by multi-coloring, and then an XYZ-wing finished it off.
 
 
Keith | 	  
 
 
A Skyscraper solves R9C5 as well, but singles is all that is required the rest of the way. | 
			 
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		keith
 
 
  Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 3355 Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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				 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				 	  | jLo wrote: | 	 		  
 
A Skyscraper solves R9C5 as well ... | 	  
 
Can you point it out?
 
 
 	  | jLo wrote: | 	 		  
 
... but singles is all that is required the rest of the way. | 	  
 
You are correct!
 
 
Keith | 
			 
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		Marty R.
 
 
  Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 5770 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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				 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				| From Keith's position, I also used the skyscraper to finish it off. | 
			 
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		jLo
 
 
  Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 55
 
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				 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject:  | 
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				 	  | keith wrote: | 	 		  
 
Can you point it out?
 
 
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<1>s at R3C6, R3C9, R7C6, R9C9  - eliminations at R9C5 and R7C7. | 
			 
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		jLo
 
 
  Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 55
 
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				 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject:  | 
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				 	  | Asellus wrote: | 	 		  
 
 
Are you sure you didn't correct it too much? | 	  
 
 
If you had seen the original post, you would have seen that it
 
was much much easier.     | 
			 
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		Earl
 
 
  Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 677 Location: Victoria, KS
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				 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: DB July 14 | 
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				Keith's posted grid has <179> at R3C5.
 
Would it not be required to eliminate the <1> in R3C5 to have a valid skyscraper?
 
 
Perhaps I need to learn more about skyscrapers.
 
 
Earl | 
			 
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		jLo
 
 
  Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 55
 
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				 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: DB July 14 | 
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				 	  | Earl wrote: | 	 		  Keith's posted grid has <179> at R3C5.
 
Would it not be required to eliminate the <1> in R3C5 to have a valid skyscraper?
 
 
 | 	  
 
 
 
The skyscraper is down columns 6 and 9.
 
 
Two <1>s in column 6.  Two <1>s in column 9.  Row 3 is shared by both.
 
Eliminate the <1>s from the shared buddies of the cells that don't
 
share a row.   
 
 
If the <1> in row three is at R3C5, then both R7C6 and R9C9 are <1>s
 
and the elimination is still valid. | 
			 
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		keith
 
 
  Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 3355 Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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				 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:46 am    Post subject:  | 
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				Here is what I used:
 
 	  | Code: | 	 		  +----------------+----------------+----------------+
 
| 1    49   3    | 8    69   46   | 7    2    5    |
 
| 8    5    7    | 14b  2    3    | 14B  9    6    |
 
| 2    49   6    | 5    179  147  | 3    8    14b  |
 
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
 
| 6    78   5    | 17a  178A 9    | 2    4    3    |
 
| 9    78   1    | 3    4    2    | 5    6    78   |
 
| 4    3    2    | 6    5    78   | 9    1    78   |
 
+----------------+----------------+----------------+
 
| 3    6    9    | 147  178  1478 | 18   5    2    |
 
| 5    1    4    | 2    3    68   | 68   7    9    |
 
| 7    2    8    | 9    16C  5    | 146  3    14B  |
 
+----------------+----------------+----------------+ | 	  
 
In C4, a and/or b are not <1>.  Following the strong links, A and/or B is <1>.  Therefore C is not <1>.
 
 
This is the same logic as a skyscraper, except one "tower" is longer than one strong link.
 
 
Keith | 
			 
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		Earl
 
 
  Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 677 Location: Victoria, KS
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				 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: DB July 15 | 
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				Is Keith's logic "multiple coloring."
 
.i.e. two coloring series connected?
 
 
Earl | 
			 
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		keith
 
 
  Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 3355 Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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				 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: DB July 15 | 
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				 	  | Earl wrote: | 	 		  Is Keith's logic "multiple coloring."
 
.i.e. two coloring series connected?
 
 
Earl | 	  
 
 
Yes.
 
 
Keith | 
			 
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		Asellus
 
 
  Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Posts: 865 Location: Sonoma County, CA, USA
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				 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:11 am    Post subject:  | 
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				It's also known as a "Color Wing" with ab as the "Bridge" between the two "Color Wraps."  (It is important to note that eliminations can only occur from the polarity opposite that of the bridge; A and B in this case.)
 
 
I'm still on the lookout for a Color Wing that uses a W-Wing as the Bridge.  Haven't found one yet.  Maybe someone will beat me to it? | 
			 
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		ravel
 
 
  Joined: 21 Apr 2006 Posts: 536
 
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				 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:48 am    Post subject:  | 
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				I was not familiar with "Color Wings". The 3 samples i saw here, can also be solved with "3 strong links" (like you have "2 strong links" in a skyscraper or kite). 
 
From my experience with 2 or 3 strong links you can make more than 90% of the eliminations, that are possible with multiple coloring. I only saw a few samples, where you would need "grouped strong links". | 
			 
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