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supportd00d
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Knight Features 8/10 - "Too Hard" ? |
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Our local paper publishes a syndicated Sudoku from Knight Features/Distributed by Universal Press Syndicate. The Sunday puzzle is always "Difficulty Rating" 5 stars. Sometimes I find it fairly easy - about equivalent of a "Hard" rating on this site. If I get totally stuck, I sometimes come here to get a hint.
About 3 or 4 times now the "Grade" button has graded the Sunday puzzle as "Too Hard". Yesterdays puzzle was one of those.
| Code: |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 1 | 8 . . | . 4 . |
| 5 . 7 | . . . | 3 . 6 |
| . 8 . | 6 . . | . . 5 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 3 | . 7 . | 8 . . |
| . . . | . 8 . | . . . |
| . . 6 | . 1 . | 4 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 9 . . | . . 5 | . 1 . |
| 1 . 5 | . . . | 2 . 4 |
| . 2 . | . . 9 | 5 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
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So is it really "too hard" as in "impossible to logically solve without guessing", or is it a limitation of the programming behind the "Grade" button? |
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wapati
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 472
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| This one has zero tricks in it, it is quite easy. A naked triple is the hardest step, though I would not call it hard. |
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supportd00d
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see it.
The thing I'm curious about is, if its not that hard, and involves a fairly basic technique like a naked triple, why does the draw/play page think its too hard ? |
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ravel
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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This is really strange, i would have expected it to be graded "hard".
| Code: | *-------------------------------------------------------------*
| 236 #36-9 1 | 8 5 237 |*79 4 *279 |
| 5 49 7 | 249 249 1 | 3 8 6 |
| 234 8 249 | 6 2349 2347 | 1 27 5 |
|-------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 24 1459 3 | 2459 7 246 | 8 256 129 |
| 247 14579 249 | 23459 8 2346 | 679 23567 12379 |
| 8 579 6 | 2359 1 23 | 4 2357 2379 |
|-------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 9 #3-467 @48 | 2347 2346 5 | 67 1 378 |
| 1 #367 5 | 37 36 8 | 2 9 4 |
| 3467 2 @48 | 1 346 9 | 5 367 378 |
*-------------------------------------------------------------* |
After some singles the locked 9 in box3/row1 and the 48 pair in box 7 reveal a triple 367 in column 2, which makes 7 in box 4 a single in r5c1.
(This implies 6 in r7c7 and singles after that).
But it doesn't find this number (or triple):
>>> play online |
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supportd00d
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: |
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OK, I see it now. I was initially blinded by the "too hard" grading and was expecting to look for something beyond my current level of comprehension.
I'm still curious about how it got graded as "Too Hard" ...
is it ....
- Well known that there will inevitably be problems - almost no-one could be expected to devote the resources to perfecting a program to solve/grade Sudoku puzzles
- Well known that there may be problems - dailysudoku.com don't really have the resources to perfect such a program
- Not totally surprising that there may be occasional problems - but dailysudoku.com will probably work out what went wrong, sooner or later.
- Really really surprising - send an e-mail to sudoku@dailysudoku.co.uk, they will be really interested in this and will have fixed it by the end of the day.
Of some combination of the above? |
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ravel
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Think you are a bit too rigorous. samgj's program surely was not intended to be a good sudoku rating tool. It makes its job very good to provide nice and interesting puzzles in 3 levels.
This is a minor bug only concerning external puzzles. If he finds the time to correct it, fine, if not, fine too.
If you want to have better rating/classifying tools, try SimpleSudoku, Sudoku Susser, Sudoku Explainer, SudoCue, JSudoku or other free programs. |
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supportd00d
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: |
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OK, I'll take that as a vote for option 3 
I do find it odd that you say a "bug" might affect only external puzzles, especially when both you and another poster considered this puzzle to be no more than "hard" .
Oh well. I will check out those other sites you listed.
Thanks |
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ravel
Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| supportd00d wrote: | | I do find it odd that you say a "bug" might affect only external puzzles, especially when both you and another poster considered this puzzle to be no more than "hard" . |
What i meant is, that i never heard of a misrated dailysudoku puzzle. | Quote: | | Oh well. I will check out those other sites you listed. |
I never had JSudoku, only read, it would be good (also for Sudoku variants like Killer Sudoku). But when you google for it, there are many. The one i mean is Jean-Christoph's one. I copied it and its the first program, i saw, which finds w-wings. Not surprising the name there is different - Y-wing.
PS @storm_norm:
I did not want to answer there to save a message  Who knows ? |
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